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	<title>Comments on: Christians don&#8217;t welcome &#8220;this second witness of the reality of Jesus Christ?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/</link>
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		<title>By: kevin bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46999</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46999</guid>
		<description>No actually I do if for Jesus sake! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No actually I do if for Jesus sake! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46998</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46998</guid>
		<description>Oh, for Pete&#039;s sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, for Pete&#8217;s sake.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46992</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46992</guid>
		<description>Cat,

I didn&#039;t say it Jesus did.  In Romans 3:23 Paul who was under the power of the Holy Spirit said:

&lt;strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;

Romans 5: 8 says:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;&quot;But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Romans 6:23 says:

&lt;strong&gt;&quot;For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;em&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;

Romans 10:9-10 says:

&lt;strong&gt;&quot;That if you confess with your mouth, &quot;Jesus is Lord,&quot; and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.&quot;
&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;


Romans 10:13 says:

&lt;strong&gt;&quot;Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;

Sure it is a good deal--&lt;em&gt;NO IT IS A GREAT DEAL!&lt;/em&gt;  

I have the Holy Spirit living in me and when the Spirit came in my life it compels me to live for Jesus.  I can&#039;t explain it but I work for God out of gratitude not obligation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cat,</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say it Jesus did.  In Romans 3:23 Paul who was under the power of the Holy Spirit said:</p>
<p><strong></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p></strong><em></p>
<p>Romans 5: 8 says:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>&#8220;But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.&#8221;</em><strong></strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Romans 6:23 says:</p>
<p><strong>&#8220;For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.&#8221;</strong></em><em></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Romans 10:9-10 says:</p>
<p><strong>&#8220;That if you confess with your mouth, &#8220;Jesus is Lord,&#8221; and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.&#8221;<br />
</strong></p></blockquote>
<p></em></p>
<p>Romans 10:13 says:</p>
<p><strong>&#8220;Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.&#8221;</strong><em></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Sure it is a good deal&#8211;<em>NO IT IS A GREAT DEAL!</em>  </p>
<p>I have the Holy Spirit living in me and when the Spirit came in my life it compels me to live for Jesus.  I can&#8217;t explain it but I work for God out of gratitude not obligation.</p></blockquote>
<p></em></p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46990</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46990</guid>
		<description>Yowch! And SNAP goes the trap. I saw it coming, but it still smarts. I respectfully disagree with your willfully obtuse interpretation of what I wrote. I was quoting Jesus, from the Gospel according to Matthew. You know, &quot;By their fruits ye shall know them&quot; and all that jazz.

That being said, I think it disingenuous of you to say that you do good works out of gratitude, not to &quot;win&quot; anything. Why do good works at all? You don&#039;t have to, right? You can just sit back on your heavenly laurels, waiting for the big freebie of salvation coming your way when you die. It&#039;s a gift! That sounds like a pretty good deal, actually. Hmm...

Oops. Now I&#039;m being disingenuous. Sorry.

I feel compelled to mention that no where did I state that we had to be perfect to have a relationship with Jesus. Of course that is not the case. Nobody, save Jesus, is perfect. But honestly... that doesn&#039;t men we shouldn&#039;t try.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I admire your faith and tenacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yowch! And SNAP goes the trap. I saw it coming, but it still smarts. I respectfully disagree with your willfully obtuse interpretation of what I wrote. I was quoting Jesus, from the Gospel according to Matthew. You know, &#8220;By their fruits ye shall know them&#8221; and all that jazz.</p>
<p>That being said, I think it disingenuous of you to say that you do good works out of gratitude, not to &#8220;win&#8221; anything. Why do good works at all? You don&#8217;t have to, right? You can just sit back on your heavenly laurels, waiting for the big freebie of salvation coming your way when you die. It&#8217;s a gift! That sounds like a pretty good deal, actually. Hmm&#8230;</p>
<p>Oops. Now I&#8217;m being disingenuous. Sorry.</p>
<p>I feel compelled to mention that no where did I state that we had to be perfect to have a relationship with Jesus. Of course that is not the case. Nobody, save Jesus, is perfect. But honestly&#8230; that doesn&#8217;t men we shouldn&#8217;t try.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I admire your faith and tenacity.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46962</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46962</guid>
		<description>Cat,

Thanks for your response.  It sounds like your faith is based on what you do.  Mine is based on what Jesus DID for me when He died on a cross for my sins.  I&#039;m saved by His grace and there is nothing I can do to earn His free gift.  If I earned it--it would not be a gift.  I&#039;m grateful for that because if my going to heaven and having a relationship with Jesus is based on what I do I&#039;m in trouble.  I&#039;ll never be good enough.  

I do good works not to win God&#039;s grace but out of gratitude to Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cat,</p>
<p>Thanks for your response.  It sounds like your faith is based on what you do.  Mine is based on what Jesus DID for me when He died on a cross for my sins.  I&#8217;m saved by His grace and there is nothing I can do to earn His free gift.  If I earned it&#8211;it would not be a gift.  I&#8217;m grateful for that because if my going to heaven and having a relationship with Jesus is based on what I do I&#8217;m in trouble.  I&#8217;ll never be good enough.  </p>
<p>I do good works not to win God&#8217;s grace but out of gratitude to Him.</p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46959</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46959</guid>
		<description>Phew! You are speedy quick with the replies! Thanks for the welcome. I have enjoyed reading through many of your posts and the comments that follow. That being said, I feel as if I&#039;m walking into a &quot;grace versus good works&quot; trap. Just a hunch.
 
Regardless, here&#039;s my answer:  If what you mean by &quot;grace&quot; is do I believe that Jesus Christ offered his life, his blood, his spiritual anguish as a redeeming ransom from sin, then yes.  I believe we are saved from our sins through the blood of Jesus Christ, not by our works. And all the obedience in the world can&#039;t save us from our sins; only the grace of Christ gives us that hope.

However, I also believe that more is required of us for salvation than simply a verbal expression of faith in Jesus. That smacks of lip-service to me. I do not believe that we are saved by grace without any effort on our part, that once we are saved we are guaranteed salvation without the need to keep the commandments we&#039;ve been given. As recorded in Matthew, Jesus himself taught that &quot;Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.&quot;

So it seems to me that rather than asking &quot;Is the &quot;Grace&quot; of Jesus the only way to heaven or do you have to do good works?&quot;, the question really should be, &quot;What is the will of the Father?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phew! You are speedy quick with the replies! Thanks for the welcome. I have enjoyed reading through many of your posts and the comments that follow. That being said, I feel as if I&#8217;m walking into a &#8220;grace versus good works&#8221; trap. Just a hunch.</p>
<p>Regardless, here&#8217;s my answer:  If what you mean by &#8220;grace&#8221; is do I believe that Jesus Christ offered his life, his blood, his spiritual anguish as a redeeming ransom from sin, then yes.  I believe we are saved from our sins through the blood of Jesus Christ, not by our works. And all the obedience in the world can&#8217;t save us from our sins; only the grace of Christ gives us that hope.</p>
<p>However, I also believe that more is required of us for salvation than simply a verbal expression of faith in Jesus. That smacks of lip-service to me. I do not believe that we are saved by grace without any effort on our part, that once we are saved we are guaranteed salvation without the need to keep the commandments we&#8217;ve been given. As recorded in Matthew, Jesus himself taught that &#8220;Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.&#8221;</p>
<p>So it seems to me that rather than asking &#8220;Is the &#8220;Grace&#8221; of Jesus the only way to heaven or do you have to do good works?&#8221;, the question really should be, &#8220;What is the will of the Father?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: kevin bussey</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46922</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin bussey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46922</guid>
		<description>Cat,

Thanks for stopping by.  Is the &quot;Grace&quot; of Jesus the only way to heaven or do you have to do good works?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cat,</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by.  Is the &#8220;Grace&#8221; of Jesus the only way to heaven or do you have to do good works?</p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46920</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-46920</guid>
		<description>&quot;My hope is in the cross! Where is yours? It&#039;s certainly not the cross. You&#039;ll never walk into a stakehouse and see a cross. Yes, I know why. You Mormons don&#039;t believe in the atoning death of the Sacrificial Lamb. So, therefore, the crux of Christianity, the real Christianity, is not even part of your religion!&quot;

I can&#039;t speak for Bill (toward whom I believe this comment was directed), but for me, I recognize that the cross is a symbol of the Savior&#039;s death and Resurrection and a sincere expression of faith. However, to assume that Mormons (LDS) don&#039;t believe in &quot;the atoning death of the Sacrificial Lamb&quot; simply because you don&#039;t see a cross atop the steeple of the church houses, or decorating the chapels, hallways, or classrooms therein, well… it&#039;s simply ignorant. Or, more delicately put, a syllogistic fallacy.

The message of the LDS church is a declaration of the living Christ. Members of the LDS church are taught that the way they live their lives should demonstrate their love for the Savior and his work. Therefore, their lives and how they live them become a meaningful expression of their faith and, therefore, a symbol of their worship.

If you did venture into an LDS &quot;stakehouse&quot; (sounds like a steak and rib joint! Pass the A1!) you would find that Sunday services are centered around the ordinance of the sacrament—as instituted by Jesus Christ on the night before his crucifixion when he met with his apostles (see Luke 22:19–20)—in which church members partake of bread and water in remembrance of Jesus Christ&#039;s atoning sacrifice. This ordinance is an essential part of their worship and spiritual development. 

Incidentally, I do believe that LDS chaplains wear a symbol of a cross on their military uniforms to show that they are Christian chaplains.

Oh, I almost forgot. As a majority of the bulleted points in the original post by Kevin B. range from generalizations of teachings taken out of context to downright inaccuracies, I feel it is irresponsible to be touting them as LDS doctrine. I&#039;m just saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My hope is in the cross! Where is yours? It&#8217;s certainly not the cross. You&#8217;ll never walk into a stakehouse and see a cross. Yes, I know why. You Mormons don&#8217;t believe in the atoning death of the Sacrificial Lamb. So, therefore, the crux of Christianity, the real Christianity, is not even part of your religion!&#8221;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak for Bill (toward whom I believe this comment was directed), but for me, I recognize that the cross is a symbol of the Savior&#8217;s death and Resurrection and a sincere expression of faith. However, to assume that Mormons (LDS) don&#8217;t believe in &#8220;the atoning death of the Sacrificial Lamb&#8221; simply because you don&#8217;t see a cross atop the steeple of the church houses, or decorating the chapels, hallways, or classrooms therein, well… it&#8217;s simply ignorant. Or, more delicately put, a syllogistic fallacy.</p>
<p>The message of the LDS church is a declaration of the living Christ. Members of the LDS church are taught that the way they live their lives should demonstrate their love for the Savior and his work. Therefore, their lives and how they live them become a meaningful expression of their faith and, therefore, a symbol of their worship.</p>
<p>If you did venture into an LDS &#8220;stakehouse&#8221; (sounds like a steak and rib joint! Pass the A1!) you would find that Sunday services are centered around the ordinance of the sacrament—as instituted by Jesus Christ on the night before his crucifixion when he met with his apostles (see Luke 22:19–20)—in which church members partake of bread and water in remembrance of Jesus Christ&#8217;s atoning sacrifice. This ordinance is an essential part of their worship and spiritual development. </p>
<p>Incidentally, I do believe that LDS chaplains wear a symbol of a cross on their military uniforms to show that they are Christian chaplains.</p>
<p>Oh, I almost forgot. As a majority of the bulleted points in the original post by Kevin B. range from generalizations of teachings taken out of context to downright inaccuracies, I feel it is irresponsible to be touting them as LDS doctrine. I&#8217;m just saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-41456</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-41456</guid>
		<description>From a Baptist preacher:

http://www.greaterthings.com/Ridenhour/Protestant_Evangelism/TwoSticks/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a Baptist preacher:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.greaterthings.com/Ridenhour/Protestant_Evangelism/TwoSticks/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.greaterthings.com/Ridenhour/Protestant_Evangelism/TwoSticks/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-41451</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinbussey.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/christians-dont-welcome-this-second-witness-of-the-reality-of-jesus-christ/#comment-41451</guid>
		<description>How does a spirit burn????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does a spirit burn????</p>
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