I’ve tried to make a difference. I’ve tried to be a reformer. It isn’t going to happen. I will continue to write about my struggles with legalism. I will write about goofy stories. I will write about positive issues. I will write about things that move me. But I’m done with denomination politics. It is obvious that it is more important to some in my denomination to be more concerned about polity than abusers. Some would like to argue over Calvinism. I don’t care. Wasting money on chapels that aren’t needed. I got involved because my church members give significant amounts of our money but it seems to be waste, waste, waste.
I have a chance to go spend time with a pastor to learn from him this summer or go to the SBC convention. I will not be in San Antonio. I’m going to spend time with this pastor. I think my conference money will be better spent for me and my church to do this. It is obvious that I’m different and that isn’t going to change. So I’m done.
I started writing my book this week. I’ve been reading other people’s books and feel that God has given me a story from another point of view. I may be the only one who reads it. I will write here about struggles I deal with and enjoying life. So I’m joining my fellow Bama fan David Phillips and Alan Cross and dropping any denomination talk. (I’m not leaving the SBC –I just won’t mention it) I’m glad I met many great people last year in Greensboro. I’ve made some good friends through this medium. I will continue to their friends. But it is obvious that change won’t happen. For that reason I’m…
I volunteer to proof-read it, Kevin, so you’ll have TWO readers.
Bythe way, love your new look! Didn’t realise that you are a singer, as well
Is it really so vital to be denominational? Was Jesus denominational? I think not.
KB,
When you right your book and get ready to publish it, may I recommend lulu.com. It’s self-publishing, on-demand printing with no up front costs. I’ve actually published a couple of things there at lulu.com/pastorsstudy
Geez, it’s early…when you “write” your book…
The smile that came to my lips when I read today’s post was a quiet one, Kevin. I’ve been where you are right now. Mark this moment. Pile a dozen stones by the river so you can come back to it and remind yourself “No, I’m not going there, here’s where I decided.”
Someone has said that no change is possible until after a person reaches the point of “No more.” You’re there, buddy. I can hear it in your voice.
You’ll have dozens of opportunities to change your mind, maybe even some pressure to do so, but I applaud your resolve. You’ll enjoy the freedom.
I like to recall Hebrews 10.23-24 in matters like these; there’s a lot in Christendom that just doesn’t qualify for the best hours and efforts we have.
[thumbs up] You go, dude!
Phil—
PS. You’re right, Francoise – Jesus was anything BUT denominational. Denominations usually start with good reason and good cause, but somehow things get turned around after a while and the horse ends up pushing the cart around. Not the best.
Let’s make every effort toward unity of the Body of Christ!
Kevin, I always enjoy reading your thoughts and I appreciate the straight forward way in which you point out hypocrisy. The SBC is a difficult ship to steer and will not reform easily. I continue to believe that those who lead her are genuine in their convictions, though perhaps misguided at times. I have been greatly encouraged by the election of Frank Page and the new openness that the blogs have allowed. I have not attended a national SBC meeting since Salt Lake City (98) but I will be in San Antonio. I believe that our convention is filled with godly men and women who desire to see our churches working in unity to grow the Kingdom of God. There is a role that our SBC can play in terms of facilitating kingdom growth and I am greatly encouraged by what I am seeing and hearing. We must always remember that people are not the problem–satan is the problem! I believe that by coming together we can offer up the very best leaders that can be found to take us into a new era of vibrant change that is more focused on gospel effectiveness than doctrinal debate. Hoping for the best….
I don’t care much of the cruddy muddy politics of the SBC so I’m inclined to agree with you Kevin, although Dave makes a compelling point. If Godly men: right thinking men with clear conviction, throw up their hands in disgust and walk away, the SBC doesn’t stand a chance. By your own statement your church sends money to the SBC. They have invested into the SBC. A businesman who invests into a venture, has input or he withdraws.
I want to know what compelled this decision?
When you write you book I will be glad to proof read it or buy a copy. I preached a sermon on change once…My first points was “there is no transformation without desperation” Another point was that one of Satan’s lies is that “things can/will never change” . To experience/call for change we must come to terms with both ideas.
That being said….Talcott Parsons was a Systems Theory” social scientist of and earlier day. I do not agree with everything he wrote but I will never forget one of his observations:
He stated (and I am paraphrasing) that organizational and social structures are always created as tools for people to use. At the first they are usually effective and efficient. However as time progress the organization/structure becomes bloated/inefficent (no suprise…that is beauracracy). But he also added that the organization/structure begins to take on a life of its own and in many was becomes egocentric in function. Eventually what happens it that what was once a tool in service to people becomes something else. The people began to serve the organization/structure (smacks of idolatry doesn’t it?). The only way to correct this is to dismantle the organization/structure and start over. However, he points out…all organizations/structures will naturally progress this way. What he did not say os whether or how a organization/structure can guard against/slow this process.
Something to think about…
Maybe that is why God promises “to make all things new” huh
A few questions if I may (I find myself struggling with these)
If you are done…are you going to lead your church to become less involved in national/state/local demoninational stuff (in finances and participation) ? Will you continue to support SBC causes that do not conflict with your convictions.
RMS,
I’m not going anywhere. We are definitely and SBC church and will always be. I’m just done talking about it.
I agree Kevin. About 4 years ago, I gave up on being too involved in my denomination (A/G). I realized through lots of prayer and wise counsel that God called me to the local church – to reach people in the community, not to get immersed in the politics of my denomination.
About 3 years ago, at the Ohio District Council meeting (the Ohio A/G business meeting) there was a resolution proposed and adopted to study why so many young leaders are leaving or not joining the denomination. Of course the suits @ the district office tabled it and the madness continues. I think it is HEALTHY that you are immersed in your church and less concerned w/ your denomination.
Remember…Jesus said, “I will build my church.” He never mentioned that it best expressed through a bureaucracy that values nickles, numbers & noses and not the local church and the people that it reaches.
I’m praying for you…pray for me & other frustrated denominational pastors & leaders too.
To the tune of “The day the music died.”
Bye Bye, the SBC lost the vision of why.
Your people are tired of all the shuck and the jive.
The good ole boys scratch their heads, and in unison sigh
Is this the reason Jesus died? Is this why Jesus died.
Kevin,
I look forward to more posts/discussions on matters that matter. I’m fairly new to blogdom and am getting my feet wet, but it seems that most of the guys within our denomination are so busy politicking without saying things that matter. Those who try to address the things that are meaningful discover a bevy of word-twisters whose desire it is to make it political (in the best of SB ways). I applaud you.
I concur with David on publishing your new book. I’ve used Lulu.com/benjap a couple times and they don’t gouge you up front like most self-publishing companies do.
Feels like “What if they gave a War, and nobody showed up?” time.
Also sounds like giving them up to their depraved minds, and we know the other end of that story.
Kevin,
Considering I was hoping to meet you in SA this year, I find hearing you not coming disappointing. I can understand you not talking about SBC stuff on your blog. I don’t particularly use mine for that purpose. I would still very much like to see you participate in the process and helping to right the ship.
Most of the course corrections a ship needs to reach it’s destination are small adjustments that most passengers don’t even notice. Right now, we are debating more whether we are off course at all (like the Navigator and the Captain arguing whether a course correction is needed). We need courageous navigators who will tell the captain–”if we keep going this way we’re going to run into this big reef that will sink the ship”. If the navigator keeps silent–it is no longer just the captain’s fault.
You can participate and be aware without letting it dominate your time or comments here. I appreciate what you do and say here, Kevin. It’s been a help to me. Most of what you say and talk about is not SBC politics related.
I believe you have a voice and a perspective that the SBC needs. You have helped me personally.
For my wife and I, the Convention is more of a retreat, when we have the opportunity to connect with people and reconnect with friends. I am serving in a church where there isn’t another SBC church for 35 miles, the association is 75 (or so) miles away. In some ways that’s very freeing, in others it’s isolating. I connect with other pastors in the community, and that’s nice, I’m developing some good relationships, but still not entirely the same.
I see the Convention as an opportunity to build my connections and be a part of where the SBC is going. It will take more than one year to make the necessary course corrections and we must take a long term view. It is the time in between those moments of correction that we get so frustrated because it feels like nothing is happening–it makes you too drained for when those moments come.
Right now, you sound very drained and frustrated at the slowness of change. I understand that. Don’t you sometimes feel that way about your congregation or certain members of the congregation? Some only change after years of ministering. Are you willing to stop praying for them, talking to them, or stop being their pastor if they don’t change fast enough?
I can’t see you doing that.
Since you posted this here, I’m presuming you want commentary and will consider what is said. Please don’t fall into the thinking that a differing opinion is “pressure” and dismiss it out of hand. That suggestion is just as much pressure to stay where you are now and not go back.
Convictions are yours to hold–and I respect where you are and how you got there. Selfishly, I’ll be missing out, and so will the SBC. This is what I think about your decision to withdraw–I’m encouraging you to make a personal course correction, just not such a drastic one. Or are you one of those that must totally abstain from something for it to get out of your system and life?
Regardless, I consider you a friend and brother in Christ. I will continue to enjoy reading your blog.
Just my thoughts.
Kelly
Kelly,
I’d love to meet you. I am very SBC. I’m just going back to how I was after Dr. Dilday was fired. It isn’t worth the time.
I’m spending my conference money on bettering myself and helping our church grow. I’m going to Catalyst in October for anyone who wants to hang out then.
However, Northworst will still be around.
I don’t know whether to say, “Right on!” to you or, “Yeah, me too.” In the past year, I have felt better about the SBC than I have in quite a few years; and yet, I know too that running your head into a brick wall does little other than to give you a headache. If you can bring yourself to do it, read some of Dr. Bob Dale’s books on congregational health, such as “To Dream Again” and “Keeping the Dream Alive.” (He used to teach congregational behavior at SEBTS, and then was employed by the BGAV, or more properly, the VBMB, in Richmond, doing essentially the same thing for pastors, now is in the process of retiring.) He characterizes congregations on a bell curve not unlike (it sounds) like the Talcott Parsons that “RMS” describes. Applied to the SBC, we are definitely on the downward side of the curve, which consists of nostalgia, questioning, polarization, and finally, dropout. I suppose that withdrawing from active participation in the SBC, while still contributing and the rest, would be at least close to dropout, polarization at a minimum. The question is: at this point, what is most effective (which I think is to say, “What is God’s will?”) for a congregation/pastor to do? Should I/we remain actively involved and continue to work to get back on the upward side of the curve (which begins with a dream, solidifies into beliefs, sets goals, builds structures to achieve those goals, and reaches its apex in ministry)? Or should I/we sit back and let others take the present structure wherever, and then get in on the upward side of that, if I/we can support it, and some other if I/we cannot. I think I know what you would do were it your church; but the Convention is another animal altogether, and to work for its reform would require a commitment of time and energy over and beyond what your church commitment calls for. Will be praying for God to lead you in your decisions, and hope you will do likewise for me.
Kev,
If it came across that I doubted your commitment to the SBC, I greatly apologize. I was there shortly after Dilday was fired and heard about how things were handled. Unfortunately, it made leadership more difficult for Dr. Hemphill and then he seems to have been treated along similar lines.
Please stay informed and make your voice a voice of reason from time to time! Not all day, every day obsessions, but awareness. And help right the ship. That’s all I would say.
Kelly
What you strive to attain, you will strive to maintain.
Who will answer this call to prayer for the Southern Baptist Convention?
Add your A-men below
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Father,
What was accomplished as You led Your people was great. There is no single ministry on earth currently sending more people to share Your love than the SBC International and Home Missions board. So many good things have been accomplished through the Cooperative effort of Southern Baptist’s around the world, being unified under Godly leadership. Yet it is yesterday’s news. Some of the saints who led us have come home to You. Now, Lord we pray, that You will be lifted up and will in mercy and grace, give us this day our daily bread…Please annoint Holy Spirit, and fill the men with the strength of character, conviction, wisdom, meekness and boldness to reclaim what the enemy seeks to destroy. Nehemiah held the secret close to his heart, and rode alone around the city walls of Jerusalem pondering, what needed to be done to rebuild. I know You living outside of time, and present in everytime, already know that this prayer would be lifted to You now. I know You hear the prayers of Your people and are continually looking for men who’s hearts are set upon doing Your will. I trust that already, one man, a man of prayer, gifted and full of Your Holy Spirit, has been given the authority ordained by God to set right, what is wrong. I pray for his protection, and for the safety of his family and church. May he call us to drop to our knees and pray and to put aside squabbles and nonsense. Let our faces be drawn to see You corporately as a body, with the renewed zeal our fathers had. REBUKE those who oppose You I pray. Those who squabble and debate over the contentious issue of a prayer language, teach both be silent so that they can hear You speak, and another interpret and that all may hear of Your love. Bestow all of Your gifts upon this body…and squelch the sounds of scholarly fools, who write books about prayer, and do not know as much about prayer as the lowly unemployed single mother praying over her sick child. It’s Your grace we all depend upon and we need Your grace today to fill our heart with love and to refocus our eyes on You. Help us all to DO Your will. In Jesus. A-men
I’m exactly at the place where you are, Kevin. Since I’m probably a little bit older than you, I reached it in 1990, shortly after graduating from Southwestern Seminary, and right in the middle of the conservative resurgence. The last convention I attended was in 1990, and by then, I’d seen enough nitpicking, and overkill, to last a lifetime, and I told myself then I would not be back. I certainly don’t think my staying away from the convention was a noticeable event. However, from about 1990 on, it appeared that a lot of other Southern Baptists did the same thing. The drop off in participation, which allowed a small group of highly politicized individuals to essentially run the denomination without accountability, was at least partly responsible for the problems we are now experiencing. I don’t think the leadership that was selected were particularly bad people, though among them there were some opportunists and some who were corrupted by the power they found they held. I just think convention meetings where only a handful of churches were represented in the messenger count allowed liberties to be taken that gave some individuals the idea that they were not accountable, and that the convention was really “theirs”.
So I’m going back this summer. I serve on the staff of a church that gives about 10% of its undesignated income to the Cooperative Program, but is struggling with that at the moment, partly because we have some leaders who are aware of the things that have happened that have made news recently, and partly because we have families from the core of our membership who have volunteered for international missions and have, because of IMB difficulties and regulations, are serving with non-denominational agencies. We have a fourth family who, in about six months, are going to give IMB service a try. So I sort of feel that we have a vested interest. I see some signs that things are going to change. So I’m going with the hope that things will change, and with the knowledge that if they don’t, at least I tried.
Kevin,
I’m deeply disappointed that I will not get to meet you in San Antonio. You are one of my favorite bloggers. Your comments on your blog and others as well, are insightful and thought provoking.
I understand that you have to do what you are led to do and thus, I appreciate your decision to stay away from SBC political discussions. Your voice in these discussions will be missed. It is my prayer that you will reconsider.
Les
Kevin,
I laughed and laughed and laughed when I clicked this “na-na-na-na” youtube posting. And today was a day when I really needed a laugh….so thanks a bunch. Sorry I won’t get to shake your hand in San Antonio.
Kevin,
I am an experienced proofreader/editor as well.
I’ll buy several copies of your book. What will you title it?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Hi
I am not sure what to say. I wish that the ones who care would stay and try to help bring about change. Who is going to help make changes? Who is going to be there to speak for people like me?
I think if you listen and this is what God wants of you, then do that.
If not maybe people – all people — need to stop and listen
God has choosen to work through people. He also gives people choices.
Will you or anyone else out there say “Here am I send me” I probably did not quoted that right, but you all know what I am saying.
Please anyone who cares more about God and his children than politics and money and all other things that really mount to nothing, those are the ones we need to be there to bring about change.
I am a nobody, but I am one of God’s children. I care deeply about a number of things. I get discouraged at times, especailly when men who are suppose to be ministers and men of God say things that are so hurtful and stand by and do nothing to protect his children.
I am one of God’s children — I hurt — I fear for other children — I need help — they need help — Does anyone hear the cries for help
Does someone care enough to do something?
Debbie
Debbie,
I’m sorry for what you have endured. I will work to make sure it doesn’t happen in my church. You and Christa are welcome to use my site to promote your message. I’m just not going to comment on the SBC anymore.
It is obvious that I am a small voice and when guys younger than me don’t want reform I can see the handwriting on the wall. I am going to concentrate on our local mission to reach our community for Christ. I am going to partner with my friends David Phillips, Art Rogers, Marty Duren and Alan Cross to do missions with Glocal.
If you need a medium to talk about the plight of children in churches in general–I would love to partner with you. I’m just done with SBC talk.
Hi
Thanks, I am glad you will be watching out for your church.
I understand how you feel.
I am not sure what to do. I need to find a way to get people to understand and to take action to protect their children. No church thinks it has happened or is going on now in their church.
Thanks
Debbie
Yes, I am with you, Kevin. I said a couple of months ago that I was finished writing about Baptist things except for participating in the Baptist Conference on the Holy Spirit, commenting on the reports of the Ad Hoc Committees for the IMB when they come out in May, and attending and writing a bit about the convention in San Antonio – which, God willing will be my last. I desire closure and I think that I should finish what I started in my involvement in this about 16 months ago. It will have been 18 months since I started by the time that San Antonio rolls around, and if there is not any change in 18 months, then I should probably put my energy elsewhere. Like you, I’m not leaving the SBC, but I’m clearly not a denominational warrior. I’d rather spend my time and energy building God’s Kingdom instead of trying to rescue man’s.
I’d love to read your book as well. I’m thinking of writing one myself after dealing with quite a bit of tragedy over the past few years (Katrina, my son, etc.). There are some things that I’ve learned that might be helpful to others. I’d love to hear about your writing process. It might help me decide as well.
I’ve just lately began a blog, the data you present on this website has helped me tremendously. Thank you for all of your time & work.