According to a recent article in The Washington Post, atheism is on the rise in America. Margaret Downey, president of the Atheist Alliance International, reports that her organization’s membership has doubled in the last year. She also reports that the Alliance’s annual convention already has a 500-person waiting list.
The Barna Group, an organization of pollsters that specializes in religious issues, conducted a survey and found about 5 million adults in the United States refer to themselves as atheists.
Their poll also found a number of additional people who say they have no religious faith or that they are agnostic. Combine these folk with the 5 million atheists, and the number of Americans detached from any sort of religious life rises to about 20 million.
Read about it here.
[From me]
As many of you who frequent this site know, I have regular atheists, agnostics and others who comment and contribute to the discussion. I’m glad they feel welcome even though I disagree with their beliefs. I’m looking forward to meeting Ask an Atheist in person next week when I go to the Catalyst Conference in Atlanta.
I want to see why those who read my blog or those who happen to stumble upon it today through the search engines are rejecting religion.
- I won’t make any other comments.
- I won’t make any judgments.
- I’m just curious why you reject religion, God, Jesus, etc…
- What would change your mind?
- How can followers of Jesus do a better job of not turning you off?
- Can I help you? How?
[BTW] Anyone should feel free to comment. Just be respectful of my non-believing friends. 
From the perspective of my age, I can see a couple of things:
1) Religion is much more of a “social issue” that it ever was, many years ago. It’s written about, discussed, studied, analyzed much more than ever before. I was raised with the catchphrase that there are two things you can’t discuss: politics and religion (that’s curious in itself and I never did understand that).
2) I don’t recall that atheists were organized, nor were the studied 50 years ago. If those things happened, they weren’t part of the media scene, and weren’t widely discussed in religious circles.
3) Taking prayer out of schools was one way that society has gotten away from “higher authority” figures, respect for authority in general, etc. You can track that trend from the time of the Madelyn Murray suit tossing out prayer. Incidentally, that’s not my observation; that was verbalized at a Rotary Club meeting I attended some years ago, by Pres. Reagan’s Secretary of Education Bill Bennett.
Kevin, you sound mystified. Yet, I would think you could write my responses for me by now. Perhaps that would be fun.
Geekwad,
I’m dead serious. I’d like to read your reasons why you reject God. I’m not going to be judgmental. It will help me understand your point of view.
I think atheists are mostly just more visible than actually more numerous, though certainly mere visibility can make some people realize that belief is not the only viable option for them in their culture.
Remember: it wasn’t so long ago that Christians basically hunted us for sport. It’s only in the last two centuries that we could be open and honest without jeopardizing our lives and loved ones. Even today things aren’t so great, but at least in the US, you can get by ok most of the time, even if you can’t ever get elected to national office.
And kevin, for myself, I never “rejected” God. I just don’t believe: I’m not convinced by the claims made. In fact I was a believer once, but I never had a moment when I converted: I just forgot to keep believing at some point, and then when I looked back and thought about it more directly, realized I had no compelling reason to start again.
Note that hers was not the only suit involved: there was another one in which a student wasn’t allowed to read a Koran, which highlighted how discriminatory and secretarian government-led prayer was.
It’s a myth that prayer was tossed out anyway. What was tossed out was the government being in charge of when and how kids would pray.
* I won’t make any other comments.
* I won’t make any judgments.
It’s ok if you do.
* I’m just curious why you reject religion, God, Jesus, etc.
Simple lack of compelling evidence – nothing more.
* What would change your mind?
Evidence that was more compelling then reasons not to believe.
* How can followers of Jesus do a better job of not turning you off?
Christians could do a better job at understanding reasons people doubt (or reasons for belief in other religions for that matter). Big turn-offs are pretending not to understand the issues, mischaracterizing them rather than addressing them, or otherwise avoiding them.
Another turn-off is the idea that any response is a good response. Many times, Christians seem to think that if they can answer every objection, they have somehow validated their position. That would be true if the answers were good answers but when they aren’t, it just weakens their credibility.
Christians could be more realistic about their “certainty”. Candor is more believable than canned responses – unless they really ARE certain… but judging by their actions and by what they say, they don’t seem to be.
Note: I’m only indicting Christians here (and even then, not all Christians) because you asked about them specifically. I think non-Christians can be similarly indicted.
How can atheists do a better job of not turning Christians off?
* Can I help you? How?
First, show me why you think I need your help (since I’m unaware that I do). How “certain” are you that I need your help?
A3,
I’m not saying you do need my help. I’m just offering to anyone who might need it.
Bad,
Thanks for stopping by and adding to the discussion. I hope you feel welcome and will continue to contribute.
Kevin,
Have you heard of the book “UNCHRISTIAN: What a new generation really thinks about Christianity”? I’m just curious for my own reading…I saw it at my local Books-A-Million yesterday and probably would have picked it up, but I was on another mission to get a John Piper book for a Home Group study.
I’d like your opinion, I always read and consider your hockey stick book reviews. Have a great day!
In Christ,
Susan
Susan,
I have not seen that book. Maybe the publisher will ask me to review it!
I’ll have to check it out. Right now I’m reviewing Bill Hybels book “Holy Discontent” which looks like a 4+ hockey stick book so far. Then I have Max Lucado’s 3:16 on deck.
I’m suppose to be talking to a literary agent about my book this week from a connection I made yesterday @ Starbucks. Pray!
kevin ,
can you expailn this hockey stick thing ???
not exactly sure . . . I know why I no longer attend church services: the so-called “evangelicals.” If this is what christianity is, I don’t want any part of it.
Wow, Kev. Great questions. It’s a good thing you have developed respectful friendships that elicit answers and that the answers are honest and forthright – also respectful.
Bad & A3 – Thanks for the perspective.
Bad – I agree with your perspective that the number of atheists is not necessarily on the rise, but it may simply be the number of people claiming to be atheists.
Frankly, coming out of a churched culture (and we are, whether Christians in America admit it or not) people called themselves Christians and attended church because it was expected of them. This is what led Billy Graham to say that he thought the majority of most church congregations had no actual relationship with God. Extending church culture is no salvation for us. I think this is actually revealing us all for who we really are.
A3 – I really enjoy your perspective. I need my church members to read this stuff, so they can understand what it means to not be immersed in this church culture that they have grown up in.
As for being convinced you need help… I am 100% convinced you need God’s help – the same % as me and everyone else – but I am also convinced that you don’t see it that way and that I am incapable of convincing you otherwise.
Like everyone else, God is going to have to make Himself real to you.
I appreciate that you receive that for what it is. I receive your perspective the same way, and, again, thank you for it.
Thanks, Art
Art,
I wish you could be with us next week.
A3 I will call you later this week to set up our meeting.
Kevin, looking forward to it
Just a note from a Jesus follower who believes in God… I reject religion too and definitely understand why others are. I’d just ask atheists whether it really is God they are rejecting or something else…. perhaps religious people or religious institutions.
God. Definitely. But also religion as a result.
Bryan,
Great point. I’m not religious, I’m a follower of a person Jesus Christ. More about that on my post for 5:00 AM tomorrow. (tease)
Kev – I checked and just can’t afford it for several reasons. Just too much money. I do wish that I could be there.
A3 – you are welcome.
Cool that you are going to meet AskanAtheist! Have fun!
As I’ve noted in previous posts, the Bible itself states that nobody can come to the Son unless the Father draws them nigh. You,as a pastor, must be aware of this verse. If God hasn’t seen fit to call me, that’s not my fault, is it? As I see it, God rejects me, rather than vice versa.
In any case, I have no wish to worship a psychopathic, genocidal bully who orders wholesale rape, murder and enslavement.
No Christian has ever been able to come up with anything their Founder did that was unique, hence I am not obliged to believe their claims. I reject the claims of Mithraists, Hindus, Jains, Muslims, Christians, etc EQUALLY. All claim to have “the truth”- none can prove it.
Your religion claims that when two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus, and ask ANTYHING in his name, it will be done. Let’s see how good Jesus’s word is, and get together to pray for a permanent end to the strife in the Middle East. You and I know very well what the outcome would be, don’t we? If he cannot answer that prayer, then he’s not as good as his word, hence, we are not obliged to believe anything he ever allegedly said.
Your religion claims uncountable things which are simply unbelievable. Talking snakes, dead people walking around as large as life, parthenogenesis, wandering stars, a bloke cooped up for 3 days in the belly of a fish, and all the rest of it- why on earth should anyone be expected to believe nonsense like this? Where is the evidence?
What would change my mind? Nothing that I can think of. I see no evidence to support the claims of believers, and nothing to demonstrate that their lives have something which I lack. Moreover, all too many preachers of Christianity who threaten others with Hellfire don’t seem to believe their own drivel, judging by their actions. By that I mean embezzlement, deception,lies, theft, adultery, rape, paedophilia, and so on. If Hellfire is a reality, then won’t don’t they behave as if they believed it??? Or, could it be that because Jesus paid the price for their sins, they can go forth and sin some more, without a qualm of conscience? Nothing else that I can think of would explain this split in belief and actions.
There is also the question of morality. I dismiss the notion that any worthwhile morality can come about by promises of posthumous bliss or eternity in Satan’s BBQ – ie, the carrot or the stick. Fear is not a worthy inducement to good behaviour.
Then, there is the dubious character of Jesus himself, who, if he had ever existed, is not someone whom I would wish as a neighbour. He free-loaded, was rude and ungracious to his mother, insulted his hosts, called Gentiles “dogs”, cursed a fig tree because it had no figs, yet it was not the time for fruiting, so I cannot see why the tree was cursed. Why didn’t he perform a miracle and make it fruit out of season? What was the point of it? Did he pay compensation to the owner? I think not. He he supported the beating of slaves, and egotistically stated that we have to hate our families to prove how much we love him. No thanks! Not for me!
Besides, the idea that an innocent victim has to be put to death to appease God’s savage wrath is an abomination, and one which I refuse to entertain for a second as a barbarous and disgusting image of a “loving” deity. A god sacrificing himself to himself to appease his own insatiable blood-lust is simply demented.
Are those sufficient reasons, or do you want more?
i grew in a catholic family, in all this years i changed my idea about religions, i saw that too much time religion and politics mix eachother and i dont like this situation.Also in this period im growing, learning everything, religion is a personal refugee and a personal sphere of people and i would like that religion will be only this. Im not atheist and respect also this data referring to a raise of % of them. I dont know which reason’be but for very religion people this data could worry.
Respect.
I’m not sure what uniqueness would prove anyway. Every religion has its own unique features.
Francoise,
Thanks for your insite as usual.
Frank,
Thanks for contributing. I hope you feel welcome and will continue to add to the discussion.
AskanAtheist,
I find it interesting that you answered my question by saying you blame God. If God doesn’t exist, by definition you cannot blame God. Perhaps that gut reaction response is something you can examine in your quest for the Truth.
Francoise,
You are very consistent, and I appreciate that. You consistently believe that if there is a God it is a God you cannot believe in. As I have suggested before, perhaps you are seeing the wrong God. I dont’ see a God who does any of those things you claim; I see people who do. God consistently shows love and mercy in spite of how far people go in their free will.
Jesus isn’t unique, Francoise?
Kevin, please humour me. I’ve answered forms of this question many times here. It would be nice to know it was heard. You sometimes give the impression that anything said to you that doesn’t agree with your world view doesn’t exactly stick. (This would be a case in point.) One gets discouraged. I think stating my beliefs for you yet again would be less helpful than having you try to state them.
You might also pose the questions to yourself. After all, the opposite to atheism is not Baptism. Why don’t you practice Voodoo? Why don’t you use prayer wheels? Why don’t you believe in Vinshu? If you were born to a slightly browner family in Mexico, would you be Catholic?
The point of that last paragraph being that your questions seem to try to paint the issue in stark black and white: atheism or God. That’s not how it is. That’s not how I looked at it.
Christianity is a choir of fragmented voices each singing in a slightly different key. But I can barely pick out its ragged tune; there are thousands of other voices screeching just as desperately that they are the one truth. If you are raised in a monoculture, where everyone believes more or less the same “miraculous” stories, it’s easy to be fooled that there are only two ways: our way and the wrong way. But when viewed in the context of all the religions people practice today, a pattern is very clear: you’re all completely mad.
You won’t agree with that, but maybe you’ll agree a lot of the other religions are mad. If you try to capture the feeling you get when you think of someone wasting a quarter of their waking life prostrated to Mecca, and then turn that feeling of vaguely horrified pity towards yourself, you should be able to understand exactly why I’m an athiest.
Oh hell, you tricked me.
Geekwad,
First, I’m not a religious person at all. I hate legalism and hypocrisy. I’m trying every day to move away from it. My life isn’t perfect but I’m at peace with God and my life. I’m hopeful. I’m optimistic. I’m passionate to see people like yourself experience the same joy I get from a “RELATIONSHIP” with God.
Religion = bad
Relationship with God =
First, sounds like more equivocation. You’re trying to say that your specific and finely-cut variation of Christianity isn’t like all those examples, because it’s not a religion. Call it religion, call it “spirituality”, call it a “relationship”, whatever you like, it doesn’t change anything.
Second, you can develop a personal relationship with Santa Claus, if you want one bad enough. I’m sure it would be every bit as fulfilling.
Santa has never answered my prayers.
Geekwad, what you are saying makes sense, but I suppose what Kevin and I are trying to say (albeit imperfectly – cheese) is that because we are human it is a given that there will be billions of finely-cut variations of understandings of God. There will be as many as there are people, at a minimum. But, there is only one God, and that is what we are trying to follow. We won’t do it perfectly, but praise God He is perfect and perfectly gracious as well given the fact that He knows we are less than perfect.
Bryan, it is not at all clear that you all worship the same god. I would say with confidence that the God that speaks to the Pope is not the same God who speaks to the Shrub, though it might be the same one that didn’t speak to Mother Teresa.
It’s not really clear to me why it’s relevant how varied Christianity is. My point was that while Christians properly consider Heavens Gaters and Yogic Fliers to be nutty in the head for insistently asserting things that are demonstrably false, they don’t seem to understand when they encounter people who feel the same way about Christianity.
If one can’t even for a moment entertain that point of view, one can’t really hope to understand atheism. In making the equivocation that a “relationship with God” is somehow unlike all religious practices (because the other ones are all wrong, I guess?) Kevin is working against his stated goal. If you cannot see what I am supposed to have rejected the way I do, even for a moment, but instead must substitute your own concept of what I am supposed to have rejected, understanding is completely impossible.
To understand atheism, all you have to do is imagine a Universe where God does not exist. It’s simple, but there’s no other way. I don’t think most Christians are willing to try that, and work it out to the logical conclusion. It’s just too distasteful to honestly contemplate.
Geekwad,
With all due respect, I can’t imagine a world without a creator. That takes more faith then believing there is a creator.
Kevin,
I think anyone can imagine that there is no God. It might take you too far out of your confort zone to do so, but I believe you have the capacity.
I think Geekwad is right: you can’t understand why someone does not believe in the Christian God unless you are willing to consider his understanding of Him. If you aren’t willing, then you cannot understand what it is that he doesn’t believe in.
Kevin, it does not take ANY FAITH at all to entertain a point of view. Simply an open mind.
Geekwad & A3,
I’m not John Lennon
I look at the evidence around me. There is no way that the earth and the universe just happened without a creator. When I look at it with an open mind that is the conclusion I come to.
I don’t think you know what it means to entertain an idea or to have an open mind. It is the ability to see things from points of view which are not your own. I’m not saying you should try not believing in God. I know you can’t do that volitionally.
Can you really not understand the distinction? I’ve run into that a lot.
It seems really common among conservative thinkers. This sort of unwillingness to model points of view you don’t agree with leads to stupid conclusions like that terrorists want to destroy America because they hate freedom. Or that Atheists think that the Earth “just happened”.
Kevin,
That’s unfortunate. It means that you are unable to consider the two opposing points of view, then conclude that Christianity is more believable than atheism.
The operative term here is “more”. Theism (or any concept for that matter) can only be “more” believable when compared to an alternative. You can’t compare something to an alternative that you are unable to imagine.
A3,
I’ve thought about it before. But like I said, when I see the universe I can’t believe any other way but there must be a creator.
Also, I’ve have a daily encounter with God. I can’t imagine a world without Him because He lives in me.
Frankly, the idea of a daily encounter with Yahweh is downright scarey!
Bryan, no, Jesus is not unique.
“Bad”, the central claim of Christianity is that its founder was unique. He wasn’t.
Well Francoise, there I can’t really agree. Virtually every person is unique in SOME way: there’s a unique mix of things, or a key different idea, and so forth. While I agree that many of the core ideas that people think are unique or original to Jesus are not, that doesn’t mean that Jesus as a figure wasn’t distinctive, just as lots of other religious figures have been distinctive.
Bryan, have you ever read the OT? Its depiction of “God” is simply horrendous. If such a being existed, I would never worship it!
Francoise, I’ve read it at least ten times, not that that makes me any more wise or a better person. I only say that because you ask.
We’ve had this discussion before. Its depiction of humanity is bad; it’s picture of God and His mercy is amazing in light of the picture of humanity. And, we don’t really need the picture of humanity because we live it every day. Once you realize there really is a God and He hasn’t given up on us; instead, He keeps giving us chance after chance to return to Him… well, you can’t get over it.
I’d also suggest that you do worship such a being every day. You worship the god of self-determination and individualism and looking at humanity apart from the God of Love… well, it’s horrendous.
Bryan,
If God is all knowing and all powerful, then His creation turned out exactly as He intended. It would be surprising indeed if God created us exactly as we are, then “gave up on us” as part of the divine plan!
God is omnipotent and omniscient in *this* Universe, but that doesn’t mean he is unaffected by events elsewhere. Can we really know that everything is proceeding just as planned? No one seems to consider that maybe God has problems of his own. It’s always about his precious, darling, damned children — center of the Universe, and obnoxiously proud of it.
Perhaps he had run out and pick Jesus at soccer practice, and he’ll be back in two or three centuries to clean up all the havok that accumulated in his absence. Perhaps our Universe failed to be awarded anything at the cosmic fair he entered it in, and he tossed us into the dustbin to work on something better. Perhaps he forgot his password. He hasn’t really told us anything about himself. We don’t even know what his day job is. (I doubt He does this universe thing professionally.) Maybe he has to travel a lot. Jet lag might explain his bitchy wrathfulness and inconsistency.
AAA & Francoise ,
The God of OT says “I AM HOLY “.
Have you come across this concept anyhwhere ?
What are your thoughts on this idea of a Holy God.
Also ,Christains and people of other faith ,please share your insights and opinions on this idea of HOLINESS.
Yes, it would be very surprising, assuming intent.
But you must remember that although all knowing and all powerful He also is loving and gives us free will to choose to love Him or not. He, in theory (I say only because we are approaching our finite limit on understanding here), limits His power with regard to our love.
martyraj,
Virtually all religions have the concept of the holy or the sacred. It is the opposite of the secular or the profane.
Psychologists who study the psychology of religion trace the phenomenon back to “theory of mind” (ToM). Animals evolve a ToM to enable them to predict how other animals (prey, predators, etc.) will act. This has a side effect: it also allows one to apply ToM to inanimate objects like the sun, thunder, etc., and incorrectly ascribe agency to them. This is the root of animism, which is the root of belief in gods – that is, agents who are invisible and powerful. As we develop a theology (a theory of divinity) around these gods, we develop the notion of the holy or the sacred. It would be surprising of other religions did not have the concept of “the holy”.
Bryan,
You have outlined the basis for the classic Epicurian Riddle:
If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?
If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?
Pretty powerful stuff! By the way, what is the Biblical support that God is “all loving” vs. simply loving?
It’s hard to love someone that you beleive does not exist. In fact, if the person (God, or anyone for that matter) does not give you enough evidence to know that he exists, then he is preventing you from loving him.
I said nothing about all loving, although I think you could support that by 1 John 4. God is love.
Why is ability and allowing us to have ability as well malevolence?
It’s not holiness that separates the God of the bible. It is the fact that He is both personal and Infinite. Quite a combo.
AAA,
your post is a brilliant and brief account of the theory of developement of God. Man has to deal with nature and the phenomenon associated with it which beyond is beyond his control.He develpoed the concept of a force which is powerful and invisible.
Your explanation does good job to this point.
But I still didn’t get the point how holiness came into picture?
Also,agreed other religions have this concept of Holiness.
martyraj,
Are you asking where the concept of holiness originated?
“Holy” and “sacred” are pretty much synonymous in modern English. The english word, “holy”, comes from the Old English “halig”, which in turn comes from the root, “hal”, meaning health – which is a clue to the origin of our modern concept of the word. And “sacred” derives from the Latin, “sacrum” (removed or set apart in a spatial sense), which referred to the gods or anything in their power – also a clue to the formation of our modern concept.
Is this the direction you’re going?
Martyraj, the meaning of words changes over the centuries, and our modern understanding of the word “holy” tends to translate it as being worthy of reverence, or being spiritually perfect.
The vindictive, paranoid, spiteful and petty monster who calls itself “God” in the Old Testament does not, according to my understanding of the word, deserve to be labelled as holy.
Bryan, where in the OT does God depict himself as Love? If you really examine “God’s” character, you will see that, alas, it’s all too human. Irrational, nasty, bloodthirsty, vengeful, angry, impatient, and so on. Why do you worship an entity with those qualities?
ALL gods are made in humanity’s image. I do not worship Yahweh for the reason that you don’t worship Allah, Thor, Vishnu or Tammuz.
If I were to worship any god, I would, by proxy, be worshipping the long-dead brains which first formulated him/her it.
As I have reperatedly stated, humans invariably destroy that which they worship.
I agree Francoise with what you have written except for the first paragraph. But I have faith in the God Who revealed Himself and wasn’t the creation of any human brains. Human brains still distort God and fail to understand God, but that doesn’t change the fact that God exists and can reveal Himself.
I can’t identify a single place. I read the entire OT (and NT) to demonstrate God’s great love. But you can look at a few places like Jeremiah 31-33, Lamentations 3, Isaiah 40-66, Zephaniah 3:17 (and all of it), for a few places that say it blatantly.
Bryan,
I didn’t mean to ignore this – I just didn’t see it until now. Sorry.
You’re right! That would be inconsistent. When did I say I blamed God?
I’m not sure why I wrote “blame” God, although the point is the same. The question was about rejecting… And you cannot reject something that doesn’t exist.
Below was the question and answer.
Just a note from a Jesus follower who believes in God… I reject religion too and definitely understand why others are. I’d just ask atheists whether it really is God they are rejecting or something else…. perhaps religious people or religious institutions.
AskAnAtheist.org, on September 25th, 2007 at 9:03 pm Said:
God. Definitely. But also religion as a result.
I suppose the reason why I said “blame” God is because I felt as though to reject religion as a result of one’s rejection of God was to blame God for the problems associated with religion. My reason for asking the question was to discern where you put the blame for the negatives you obviously see in religion and religions belief. I see the blame for religion on humanity (and Satan, but that opens up even more cans of worms and questions about my sanity – smile).
Does that make sense? And, does that answer your question?
Bryan,
Maybe it would clarify if I elaborated my response a bit more and said: “I reject claims that God exists.”
So do I.
But I give full credit to humanity for inventing God and religion, and for writing, editing, and compiling the Bible, and then misrepresenting it as inerrant.
Yes and yes
As I have reperatedly stated, humans invariably destroy that which they worship
Some Hidhu Gods seem to be there for centuries.
AAA,
I guess what surprised me was your gut answer – the one that you typed first. You simply wrote “God.” God period.
When I read that I interpreted it like that. That you wrote from your heart “God.” Then, your brain clicked into gear and you wrote “but also religion as a result.”
I may have misinterpreted, but I was hoping you would do a little gut check on why you wrote your answer the way you did.
Bryan,
I’m afraid you did misinterpret in this instance; that was a reasoned response. By my choice of a single word reply, “God,” I attempted to emphasize that my rejection of religion was unequivocally a rejection of the existence of God rather than any ill feelings toward religious people and institutions. I just didn’t realize at the time that it required clarification.
So now, to respond to your request for a gut-check: my feelings about God and my belief is not so monolithic. I wish there were a God, eternal life, and a greater purpose. But I truly don’t believe that there is. If I somehow were to learn that God did exist, I expect that I would be ecstatics and have no feelings of anger on animosity whatsoever. Though I admit that I would still be quite confused if I learned that God was in fact the God described in the Bible.
AAA,
I may be inferring in your dicusssion with Bryan.You said you wished there were God, eternal life and a greater purpose .Can I assume that there is a yearning for these things in your heart or
atleast a lingering doubt in your mind that those might exist .
If at all you happened to find God , you will be surprised or shocked to find him as described in the Bible.
martyraj,
You might put it that way. I would describe my feeling as a wish for those things to be true.
I wouldn’t characterize my belief as doubt that those things might exist. While I don’t think there is proof that they do not exist, I believe strongly based on the evidence before me that they don’t.
Very.
It all seems to boil down to faith either way: Faith to be an atheist; faith to be a theist. That’s cool. The power of faith is absolutely amazing.
Bryan,
I agree.
However, I do note a key difference: it does not take blind faith to be an atheist, but rather reasoned faith – that is, beliefs based on embracing all available evidence. On the other hand, to varying degrees (depending on one’s particular beliefs), it takes blind faith to be a Christian. And it is even more striking to note that some Christians won’t even consider evidence that challenges their beliefs – not even long enough to accept or reject the evidence based on its merits.
The reason the difference is key is this: if two individuals hold any set of beliefs, and one individual is unwilling to consider evidence that shows his beliefs to be wrong, but the other is unwilling to consider any such evidence, and the one who considers evidence continually adjusts his beliefs in light of the best evidence available, then that individual has the best chance of ending up with beliefs that correspond most closely with reality. The other individual is either incredibly lucky to start out with beliefs that correspond exactly with reality, or he is doomed to holding fanciful beliefs. In that sense, I agree with you that “the power of faith is absolutely amazing.”
Oops!! In the last paragraph – it should have said that one of the 2 individuals is willing to consider evidence.
Martyraj, everything has its use-by date, and Hinduism is not a static religion. Gods come and go, same as everything else.
Martyraj said
If at all you happened to find God , you will be surprised or shocked to find him as described in the Bible.
AAA replied
very
so , that seems to me as the reason why you try to avoid God .
martyraj,
I’m not sure why you would conclude that I try to avoid God. I don’t believe that God exists, but even so, I’m always willing to listen to reasons for faith that others may offer me. In fact, as you’ve seen me do in this blog, I’m active about asking others for their reasons for faith.
How can someone avoid something that he believes does not exist? What have I said that leads you to believe that I avoid God?
AAA,
I didn’t mean that you are afraid of God.
I know how sincere and commited you are in your quest for truth.I respect and value your opinion and views .
I thought I was making fun.And that is my only intention.
martyraj,
I just re-read your post in the light of a joke. Pretty good!
AAA,
I think you are just hitting on a problem within the fellowship of believers where often there are pastoral leaders and denominational leaders who don’t have as strong as faith as they proclaim. They are so afraid of people questioning things, and what they teach, and they forget that their faith isn’t supposed to be about them anyway, but only about God.
I have a reasoned faith. But sometimes there are things that cannot be reasoned. That is true of both atheism and following Jesus. It would probably be harder to prove that something doesn’t exist than that it does. And it is hard to understand why Christianity and the bible survives and thrives in spite of all the really bad associations with it and bad things that have been propogated against it. Just as it is hard to explain why Jesus did what He did, why His followers kept following Him, how His teachings were so phenomenal, and the like. I’m not trying to give a full account of the reasonability of a Jesus faith – just a few – and I’m sure you know them or have heard people present them, badly and decently.
I still think many who reject the claims of Jesus do so because of the people who claim to believe in Jesus, not because of Jesus Himself. That’s something worth considering.